I have purposely accompanied it with a stock photo of egg and sperm as i didn’t want to go for the full dramatic thumb sucking foetus. That only plays into the hands of extremists on either side. There is a need for nuance.
I worked in an abortion clinic for a while as a counsellor. I had to leave. It's not always just the flippant decision that some people make it out to be.
It's wave after wave of death that can be felt in the atmosphere, so palpable.
The thin veneer of 'I'll be fine". Some women hanging onto their decision with a rictus smile.
I've been in theatre, I've listened to the trauma of the late procedures with traumatised nursing staff and tried to frantically put girls back together again psychologically when they come round from the anesthetic. I'm not anti abortion or banging a particular pro life drum. It's not just neatly phrased words, a right or a political stance... An abortion. It's so much more than that.
As you say, a nuanced debate. Until very recently women had very little control over their own fertility. We now have so many ways to avoid pregnancy. As you say, abortion should be used responsibly and with due respect to the sanctity of human life. It should be a last resort, surely, for the sake of both the woman and the baby. I find both extremes of this debate distasteful. Thank you for this Julie.
There will always be unwanted pregnancies, sadly. Women need to retain the right to choose imo - but with limits. Compassion has to work both ways and UK women should respect what some women in other countries would give their right arm for.
Julie you have touched on some really important issues...I have never had anyone abortion it was not a decision I personally could make...but at the same time I dont want to see any dark alley shady pop up clinics damaging anyone!! I dont feel its my place to make a judgement...I dont however like that some people use it for birth control...its deeply upsetting...I wish we would put more money into programs and assistance to help those who dont want to have an abortion!! I think that would help more
Hey Julie, I’d like to offer one guy’s perspective - which means one perspective from one guy - if that’s okay. We’re about to celebrate our 25th anniversary in a couple days. We’ve seen a lot of stuff during that time. We have three great kids. We also lost our only daughter. And through it all, family has been every bit as much my responsibility as hers. I bear every bit as much responsibility for every time my wife got pregnant. I should think that should pretty much go without saying.
But sometimes it’s our contradictions that define us. I believe absolutely in a woman’s right to have an abortion. It’s her body. It’s her choice. I disagree with choosing to have an abortion. But that’s what I mean: being human means the things we feel with such absolute certainty may not always make much sense in the overall cosmic scheme. It’s not a perfect system, this universe in which we live.
That being said, I also feel that if I, as a man, were to get a woman pregnant and she were forced to make such a heart-rending choice, there must be ramifications for me as well. What? I don’t know. But guys throw way too much of this on the woman while we as men simply get to sit back and pass judgement.
And yet if someone were to have gotten my daughter pregnant and then left her to deal with “next,” I know exactly which one would’ve been in the trunk of my car while we drove somewhere to sort that sh*t out.
Thanks for your input. Yes it is a contradiction. To support allowing someone to make a choice means accepting they may well make one you disagree with. I suppose I’m an idealist and just wish people would make more considerate choices.
I agree with that. Looking past the cliched answers, I wonder what makes a guy interested in someone with that going on. It feels like there’s a sort of psychopathy to that behavior. It may also be that she sees it less as an embryonic human and more like you and I might imagine an alien face hugger. It’s just a really sad, reckless behavior.
I absolutely agree with you. I wonder what sort of a headspace - what little respect and understanding you have to have towards your own body and your own soul, to do that - you have to have, never mind the complete disregard for another life. How much complete obliviousness to their own bodies and own consciousnesses must these women be swimming in, to accept that? Nearly a century of redefining womanhood (or rather, wholesale erasing it) has really taken its toll on these people, hasn't it?
Sometimes I think - do these people not understand the life long karmic baggage that comes with this ‘quick fix’? It’s not to be entered into lightly. But conscience is only an issue if you actually have one to begin with, isn’t it?
Besides anything else, I just don't think I could violate my own womb like that - both by accepting life that I wasn't interested in following up on, and then evacuating it so violently via a complete stranger, to say nothing of the damage I was wrecking on my mind and my soul. I love every part of *myself* too much to do that, to say nothing of the baggage, as you say, of taking another life. It's one thing to take a life in self-defense but it's quite another to take a life because you feel entitled to or just don't recognize the value of life at all. That's a whole other level of karma and disrespect for the entire fabric of creation...including yourself. I find it just so genuinely sad that there are people out there so divorced from life and all that is sacred that they can't see how wrong that is on all levels
I think men are definitely a selfish bunch and l got myself sterilsed.They are out of order to do this.Different in special circumstances but not for birth control and use it or get sterilised. Silly Lilly . Thanks Julie l know people who are unable to have children.😥😊 x.
There are most certainly some women that use abortion as a form of contraception. I’ve heard them giggling, talking about how many babies they killed. Literally using those exact words. Not the norm, but they do exist. Sadly
Flippancy sums it up. I detest the whole ‘oh isn’t it great that we’re so progressive and non-judgey now’ The deterioration of morality begins when we disregard values. And like you said recently, we hold opinions, i.e. judgements all the time. I’m pro-choice too, but the flippancy, the trying to out do each other, I raged hearing them and despaired at the impressionable young girls listening to them.
Lily is such a fake person - pretending to be common when she's always been well off, she's probably never had an abortion. This is a woman trying so hard to be famous she had sex toys delivered to everyone she knew to try to get a business going doing that.
Julie. I have a vast appreciation for this and for you because you wrote it. This urge humans have to push and push and push against life is maybe what separates us from other species. I too have strong beliefs on the subject which don’t matter in the big scheme because it’s a personal choice every time. What matters is that we’ve decided to say it’s not life until it sees a lightbulb, to make the options more palatable, I don’t know. It’s a form of brainwashing that makes contraceptive use of the procedures into just another day at the gyno, for the abuses. My point is (although I agree with your assessment in principle) what would bother their consciences if it’s not life to begin with? I’ve not researched it but I believe other mammals don’t terminate pregnancies of viable offspring. Only humans deem them imaginary until a lightbulb. Truly it’s such a wide topic. I too feel there should be boundaries, both time and frequency, and that societal supports should be in place to prevent situations where birth control wasn’t an option on the front end. When you look at the numbers they’re staggering.
Facebook sucks! My daughter put me on that years ago and I’m never on the darn thing. Once in awhile, I go on from 8-9 to listen to Ghost in a Gaslight on a Wednesday night. It’s been awhile and I wonder if I should feel guilty for not listening. After all, I won a Ghost in the Gaslight sweatshirt from the artist. 🤦🏼♀️
Well I’m on a roll today.
I have purposely accompanied it with a stock photo of egg and sperm as i didn’t want to go for the full dramatic thumb sucking foetus. That only plays into the hands of extremists on either side. There is a need for nuance.
Seeing that article got me mad!
Here it is
https://people.com/lily-allen-says-she-can-t-remember-how-many-abortions-she-s-had-11765714
I worked in an abortion clinic for a while as a counsellor. I had to leave. It's not always just the flippant decision that some people make it out to be.
It's wave after wave of death that can be felt in the atmosphere, so palpable.
The thin veneer of 'I'll be fine". Some women hanging onto their decision with a rictus smile.
I've been in theatre, I've listened to the trauma of the late procedures with traumatised nursing staff and tried to frantically put girls back together again psychologically when they come round from the anesthetic. I'm not anti abortion or banging a particular pro life drum. It's not just neatly phrased words, a right or a political stance... An abortion. It's so much more than that.
Sounds a harrowing place to be. Both outcomes (an abortion and an unwanted child) can damage women greatly, sadly. 💔
Yes, it wasn't a pleasant experience. I totally agree. It's the flippancy that gets to me.
Oh that’s gross. Such an utter disrespect for themselves, for life, for the medical services available. Soulless people.
It’s disgusting.
Makes a mockery of genuinely heartfelt cases.
As you say, a nuanced debate. Until very recently women had very little control over their own fertility. We now have so many ways to avoid pregnancy. As you say, abortion should be used responsibly and with due respect to the sanctity of human life. It should be a last resort, surely, for the sake of both the woman and the baby. I find both extremes of this debate distasteful. Thank you for this Julie.
There will always be unwanted pregnancies, sadly. Women need to retain the right to choose imo - but with limits. Compassion has to work both ways and UK women should respect what some women in other countries would give their right arm for.
Yes, sadly we need the right to safe abortion for all sorts of reasons, but along with rights come responsibilities. Abortion is not contraception.
Why don't people like Lily Allen tie their tubes??!! Is she retarded?
Like my mate once said
“Once? A mistake. Twice? Unlucky. More than that? No. Sorry love. No-ones that fucking unlucky”
Too bloody right 😂
Julie you have touched on some really important issues...I have never had anyone abortion it was not a decision I personally could make...but at the same time I dont want to see any dark alley shady pop up clinics damaging anyone!! I dont feel its my place to make a judgement...I dont however like that some people use it for birth control...its deeply upsetting...I wish we would put more money into programs and assistance to help those who dont want to have an abortion!! I think that would help more
I think that’s why it’s sad what these kind of women do. They test people’s patience compassion to the limit.
Agreed!!
Hey Julie, I’d like to offer one guy’s perspective - which means one perspective from one guy - if that’s okay. We’re about to celebrate our 25th anniversary in a couple days. We’ve seen a lot of stuff during that time. We have three great kids. We also lost our only daughter. And through it all, family has been every bit as much my responsibility as hers. I bear every bit as much responsibility for every time my wife got pregnant. I should think that should pretty much go without saying.
But sometimes it’s our contradictions that define us. I believe absolutely in a woman’s right to have an abortion. It’s her body. It’s her choice. I disagree with choosing to have an abortion. But that’s what I mean: being human means the things we feel with such absolute certainty may not always make much sense in the overall cosmic scheme. It’s not a perfect system, this universe in which we live.
That being said, I also feel that if I, as a man, were to get a woman pregnant and she were forced to make such a heart-rending choice, there must be ramifications for me as well. What? I don’t know. But guys throw way too much of this on the woman while we as men simply get to sit back and pass judgement.
And yet if someone were to have gotten my daughter pregnant and then left her to deal with “next,” I know exactly which one would’ve been in the trunk of my car while we drove somewhere to sort that sh*t out.
Thanks for your input. Yes it is a contradiction. To support allowing someone to make a choice means accepting they may well make one you disagree with. I suppose I’m an idealist and just wish people would make more considerate choices.
I agree with that. Looking past the cliched answers, I wonder what makes a guy interested in someone with that going on. It feels like there’s a sort of psychopathy to that behavior. It may also be that she sees it less as an embryonic human and more like you and I might imagine an alien face hugger. It’s just a really sad, reckless behavior.
I wish human bodies were transparent. I think there would be a lot more kindness enacted if people could see what they were dealing with.
That would be miraculous
I agree. It feels like there’s less and less joy, less and less trust, and less and less kindness.
I absolutely agree with you. I wonder what sort of a headspace - what little respect and understanding you have to have towards your own body and your own soul, to do that - you have to have, never mind the complete disregard for another life. How much complete obliviousness to their own bodies and own consciousnesses must these women be swimming in, to accept that? Nearly a century of redefining womanhood (or rather, wholesale erasing it) has really taken its toll on these people, hasn't it?
Sometimes I think - do these people not understand the life long karmic baggage that comes with this ‘quick fix’? It’s not to be entered into lightly. But conscience is only an issue if you actually have one to begin with, isn’t it?
Besides anything else, I just don't think I could violate my own womb like that - both by accepting life that I wasn't interested in following up on, and then evacuating it so violently via a complete stranger, to say nothing of the damage I was wrecking on my mind and my soul. I love every part of *myself* too much to do that, to say nothing of the baggage, as you say, of taking another life. It's one thing to take a life in self-defense but it's quite another to take a life because you feel entitled to or just don't recognize the value of life at all. That's a whole other level of karma and disrespect for the entire fabric of creation...including yourself. I find it just so genuinely sad that there are people out there so divorced from life and all that is sacred that they can't see how wrong that is on all levels
I think men are definitely a selfish bunch and l got myself sterilsed.They are out of order to do this.Different in special circumstances but not for birth control and use it or get sterilised. Silly Lilly . Thanks Julie l know people who are unable to have children.😥😊 x.
Of course it takes two. The pregnancy is a biproduct of two people. Men need to take responsibility too, I absolutely advocate that.
There are most certainly some women that use abortion as a form of contraception. I’ve heard them giggling, talking about how many babies they killed. Literally using those exact words. Not the norm, but they do exist. Sadly
They do and they make a mockery of desperate,
vulnerable women in heartbreaking situations using this right sparingly.
This is just one horrible person, even if she’s lying to impress someone.
Thats right. I think she means what she says but like you say, even if she is just courting publicity, it’s a horrible way to do it
Bang on Julie.
It’s the flippancy, the total disregard 💔
Flippancy sums it up. I detest the whole ‘oh isn’t it great that we’re so progressive and non-judgey now’ The deterioration of morality begins when we disregard values. And like you said recently, we hold opinions, i.e. judgements all the time. I’m pro-choice too, but the flippancy, the trying to out do each other, I raged hearing them and despaired at the impressionable young girls listening to them.
I might have to write a post on it soon because yes 100%
Judgement by others shapes the world.
Lily is such a fake person - pretending to be common when she's always been well off, she's probably never had an abortion. This is a woman trying so hard to be famous she had sex toys delivered to everyone she knew to try to get a business going doing that.
She’s always come across a bit of a spoilt brat, certainly.
Cold and callous. Probably a good thing they don’t have children.
She has 2 daughters. And what kind of chilling example she sets 😬😳
Exactly.
Julie. I have a vast appreciation for this and for you because you wrote it. This urge humans have to push and push and push against life is maybe what separates us from other species. I too have strong beliefs on the subject which don’t matter in the big scheme because it’s a personal choice every time. What matters is that we’ve decided to say it’s not life until it sees a lightbulb, to make the options more palatable, I don’t know. It’s a form of brainwashing that makes contraceptive use of the procedures into just another day at the gyno, for the abuses. My point is (although I agree with your assessment in principle) what would bother their consciences if it’s not life to begin with? I’ve not researched it but I believe other mammals don’t terminate pregnancies of viable offspring. Only humans deem them imaginary until a lightbulb. Truly it’s such a wide topic. I too feel there should be boundaries, both time and frequency, and that societal supports should be in place to prevent situations where birth control wasn’t an option on the front end. When you look at the numbers they’re staggering.
What the heck? This chick is crazy!!!
I posted that on Fb and was told it was a woman hating post! Wtf!
For me it’s a right that should exist, but these two are blatantly abusing it and that’s plain wrong.
Facebook sucks! My daughter put me on that years ago and I’m never on the darn thing. Once in awhile, I go on from 8-9 to listen to Ghost in a Gaslight on a Wednesday night. It’s been awhile and I wonder if I should feel guilty for not listening. After all, I won a Ghost in the Gaslight sweatshirt from the artist. 🤦🏼♀️