Good message Julie. Interesting point about what amounts to emotional neglect. I’ve discovered emotional neglect as a product of trying to figure out the impact that poor parenting had on me and my siblings. I see young women with toddlers who are absorbed by their phones and a sweet child in a buggy desperate for engagement. It’s so sad. One particularly moment was when a little lad of maybe 4 was trying to comfort his little baby sibling who was in distress whilst the mother was ignoring them and swiping away on her phone. I’ve gone a little bit off your message here but this came to mind.
Yes, that topic probably deserves a substack of its own.
I feel pleased I didn’t get a smartphone til my son was 3.
Eye contact is so important in those early years, I even made sure I had a push chair that faced me or had him in a carrier. It’s very disturbing what has become normalised.
I don't know a good time to become a parent.The seventies was hard and society was messed up.My parents, went to war .My dad was a soldier and My mother made explosives,couldn't deal with us children she took a breakdown.I don't think it is easy we do what we can .Trial and error Life is hard..Thanks Julie.♥️😊.
Absolutely true, life is hard. The parents who reckon they have it all sussed are the ones to watch most of all. No-one ever does do they? And none of us know what life will throw at us x
Miller is one of my favorites- she did some amazing work that traced societal ills to precisely the sorts of parenting you speak of- some interesting correlations between willingness to accept cruelty and being raised in traditional patriarchal homes. Anyway, I hadn’t thought of her in awhile and was excited to see her name come up. Excellent points, thanks for sharing.
Yes, like much that's reactionary, it's easy to swing so far the other way. Hence the memes. It's the product of a time when you can see some parents be slapped in the face (or worse, watch their child slap someone else in the face) but do nothing about it because the view is that the child is merely expressing itself... in NYC at least, it's not a rare sight
I agree and I think maybe the ‘uprising’ of children - their societal status and acquired rights have to some extent unnerved many adults. Certainly in the UK, many feel that should they say something in response to antisocial behaviour by a youth they will be met by “you can’t tell me what to do, I know my rights….” or much worse.
Yes, I had toddlers and young children in mind, but no doubt it carries through the generations. Makes me think of a line my uncle once said to me: "everyone now talks about their rights, but no one talks about their responsibilities!"
I'm not big on corporal punishment either but I did get popped a few times as a small boy but never in anger. Got pops in high school, had to report to the woodshop during lunch and I can tell you that really did hurt like hell. It also put me on the straight and narrow. The problem today is there seems to be no way to raise a child without the damn internet doing it for you.. When i was growing up we were all told to be seen, not heard. That makes sense. You get further along in life when you listen. I can also remember visiting the small towns where my folks came from - if we saw a funeral procession rolling our way we'd pull over, get out and stand there with our hands on our heart - if you had a hat on you took it off. It was 'sir' and 'ma'am'. We still have that but I see it going by the wayside. The one thing that is different today though is the violence - there is a great violence seeded within this generation. I don't think it's s lack of corporal punishment so much as it is broken homes and disinterested parents and of course, I think the big culprit is the internet. I guess we're going on near twenty years of Tinder, Hook ups and endless porn on a smart phone. This can't be good for kids and I think this is the big worry. Smoking and drinking is not good for you, I get that, but I don't think the new things are any better, I think they're worse. Fentanyl is killing us by the thousands every year. Also, they can't seem to read a book. I remember way back when in junior high, bragging to my Uncle on how I put together a book report on Call of The Wild with nothing but the jacket blurb. He looked honestly lost and said, "that's too bad, that's one helluva story," and then he walked down the hall and came back, gave me an old beat to hell paperback copy of same and it turns out It really is one helluva story. Sorry to ramble, folks.
I agree about disinterested parents. Everyone is hooked up to tech, sadly.
Although I don’t condone physical punishment, I do think different parenting techniques work for different children. We all, as humans respond to different stimuli after all. One size doesn’t fit all yet we have one society and making it work is in everyone’s interest.
I was actually thinking about this the other day when I saw the meme of the baby on the table being fed surrounded by fags and cans of booze.
We all love a meme and a laugh. But sometimes I feel like we've been a bit desensitised and just sharing these things without really thinking about it.
I've got a photo of myself drinking the dregs from someone's beer glass. Some of my family had pubs and apparently I used to go around drinking the dregs (I was about 3 years old). One time I apparently got pissed and was on a table entertaining the crowds and it was so hilarious!
I'm also guilty of turning that photo of me into a meme.
I think with me, I've tried to turn a lot of the abuse and neglect I suffered into humour, but I don't know of that's a good or bad thing? I look at it as being in the past so there's no harm... that's already been done.
But right now, this moment I wouldn't hesitate to come down on anyone who was mistreating a child.
I saw a tiktok I think it was? Of a little girl in a car, she must of been about 2 years old? Not strapped into her seat properly and puffing away on a fuckin vape!!!! I couldn't actually believe what I was watching. I was horrified!!!
So you've give me some food for thought and to maybe be a bit more mindful about the memes I might share. 🩷 xx
I have restacked this because I found it interesting the way you made light of those own situation and the other observations you make.
Oh yeah as you know. I have a really dark sense of humour, it’s something we share but I’d hate to think we’d go back to those days.
How awful for you to go though that as a toddler. You’ve done amazing to be the light you are ☀️
The viral vids that used to really upset me was that trend when they spell out some vile word in Alphabites or something then give it to their child to eat whilst laughing. They really turned my stomach.
I think I was brought up by teenagers. Never grew up themselves and it was generational so no one to pull them up sort of thing. My nan was 17 when she had my mum and my mum was 19 when she had me. I'm pretty sure they both suffered sexual abuse at the hands of my grandad aswell as I did, my nan married him when she was 16 and he was 21 so that gives red flag vibes. So it was the blind leading the blind.
Not making excuses for them but I do pity them all for being so weak.
No not at all. I like comments on my post, discussions. Made me think of my friend who was sexually abused. When I first met her before I knew all that, I used to find it odd/inappropriate some of the jokes she was making at 14/15 or things she had normalised. Then you look back with perspective and think “omg…she was trying to process it all, deal with it”.
Haha. Don’t know what you mean Julie. I never got pissed as a toddler and never misbehaved until the age of 50 once I realised what a good corporate mug / slave I’d been😂😂 Then I gave myself a slap instead!
Smacking kids was just normal when I was a kid so I did it too with our elder children. Eventually I came to my senses and realised my regrettable error with our youngest and didn’t smack them. Better results and no trauma. 🥹
Yeah, we can’t go back but we can apologise and teach better. Many things were actually better in the old days but corporal punishment wasn’t one of them.
Thankfully, I’ve haven’t seen too many of those memes but I get the idea. Maybe it’s a way of hijacking reasonable concerns about free speech to polarise those who are seen as “snowflakes” and the reactionary opposite who think offensiveness is edgy and cool - in reality, we should all be playing nicely somewhere in the middle.
It’s easy to imagine that there was some sort of golden age, but slavery, child exploitation, infectious disease, rotting meat sausages and smog aren’t any sort of fair trade off for 5G, AI, vape shops and Turkish barbers - and it’s not like the 70’s or 80’s were a sweet spot. I do value the freedom I seemed to have in childhood but some weren’t so lucky. The public schools have a lot to answer for in terms of developmental trauma. No wonder so many of our politicians lack empathy. And the care system was no joke. I agree that those who are quickest and loudest to say that an emotionally harsh childhood never did them any harm - likely doth protest too much.
As ever, you have a keen eye for casual hypocrisy and you come at it with a challenge that is firm, yet yieldingly nuanced.
Good message Julie. Interesting point about what amounts to emotional neglect. I’ve discovered emotional neglect as a product of trying to figure out the impact that poor parenting had on me and my siblings. I see young women with toddlers who are absorbed by their phones and a sweet child in a buggy desperate for engagement. It’s so sad. One particularly moment was when a little lad of maybe 4 was trying to comfort his little baby sibling who was in distress whilst the mother was ignoring them and swiping away on her phone. I’ve gone a little bit off your message here but this came to mind.
Yes, that topic probably deserves a substack of its own.
I feel pleased I didn’t get a smartphone til my son was 3.
Eye contact is so important in those early years, I even made sure I had a push chair that faced me or had him in a carrier. It’s very disturbing what has become normalised.
I don't know a good time to become a parent.The seventies was hard and society was messed up.My parents, went to war .My dad was a soldier and My mother made explosives,couldn't deal with us children she took a breakdown.I don't think it is easy we do what we can .Trial and error Life is hard..Thanks Julie.♥️😊.
Absolutely true, life is hard. The parents who reckon they have it all sussed are the ones to watch most of all. No-one ever does do they? And none of us know what life will throw at us x
Miller is one of my favorites- she did some amazing work that traced societal ills to precisely the sorts of parenting you speak of- some interesting correlations between willingness to accept cruelty and being raised in traditional patriarchal homes. Anyway, I hadn’t thought of her in awhile and was excited to see her name come up. Excellent points, thanks for sharing.
Years ago when I studied Play, she was one of the authors we were recommended to read. I always enjoyed her works.
Yes, like much that's reactionary, it's easy to swing so far the other way. Hence the memes. It's the product of a time when you can see some parents be slapped in the face (or worse, watch their child slap someone else in the face) but do nothing about it because the view is that the child is merely expressing itself... in NYC at least, it's not a rare sight
I agree and I think maybe the ‘uprising’ of children - their societal status and acquired rights have to some extent unnerved many adults. Certainly in the UK, many feel that should they say something in response to antisocial behaviour by a youth they will be met by “you can’t tell me what to do, I know my rights….” or much worse.
Yes, I had toddlers and young children in mind, but no doubt it carries through the generations. Makes me think of a line my uncle once said to me: "everyone now talks about their rights, but no one talks about their responsibilities!"
As a Gen Z childhood survivor.
Freedom, and growth, involve risk.
I do not idolize my mother's narcissistic abuse, or negligence.
Though I am grateful for the negligence and the freedom I had, without those , I would have been subjected to more of her abuses.
This generations style of child rearing seems focused upon , not allowing the child any relief from parental abuse and control.
My perspective, my reality.
This is a good point. Helicopter parenting is massive these days and I believe children suffer because of it.
I'm not big on corporal punishment either but I did get popped a few times as a small boy but never in anger. Got pops in high school, had to report to the woodshop during lunch and I can tell you that really did hurt like hell. It also put me on the straight and narrow. The problem today is there seems to be no way to raise a child without the damn internet doing it for you.. When i was growing up we were all told to be seen, not heard. That makes sense. You get further along in life when you listen. I can also remember visiting the small towns where my folks came from - if we saw a funeral procession rolling our way we'd pull over, get out and stand there with our hands on our heart - if you had a hat on you took it off. It was 'sir' and 'ma'am'. We still have that but I see it going by the wayside. The one thing that is different today though is the violence - there is a great violence seeded within this generation. I don't think it's s lack of corporal punishment so much as it is broken homes and disinterested parents and of course, I think the big culprit is the internet. I guess we're going on near twenty years of Tinder, Hook ups and endless porn on a smart phone. This can't be good for kids and I think this is the big worry. Smoking and drinking is not good for you, I get that, but I don't think the new things are any better, I think they're worse. Fentanyl is killing us by the thousands every year. Also, they can't seem to read a book. I remember way back when in junior high, bragging to my Uncle on how I put together a book report on Call of The Wild with nothing but the jacket blurb. He looked honestly lost and said, "that's too bad, that's one helluva story," and then he walked down the hall and came back, gave me an old beat to hell paperback copy of same and it turns out It really is one helluva story. Sorry to ramble, folks.
I appreciate the ramble.
I agree about disinterested parents. Everyone is hooked up to tech, sadly.
Although I don’t condone physical punishment, I do think different parenting techniques work for different children. We all, as humans respond to different stimuli after all. One size doesn’t fit all yet we have one society and making it work is in everyone’s interest.
You're so right Julie.
I was actually thinking about this the other day when I saw the meme of the baby on the table being fed surrounded by fags and cans of booze.
We all love a meme and a laugh. But sometimes I feel like we've been a bit desensitised and just sharing these things without really thinking about it.
I've got a photo of myself drinking the dregs from someone's beer glass. Some of my family had pubs and apparently I used to go around drinking the dregs (I was about 3 years old). One time I apparently got pissed and was on a table entertaining the crowds and it was so hilarious!
I'm also guilty of turning that photo of me into a meme.
I think with me, I've tried to turn a lot of the abuse and neglect I suffered into humour, but I don't know of that's a good or bad thing? I look at it as being in the past so there's no harm... that's already been done.
But right now, this moment I wouldn't hesitate to come down on anyone who was mistreating a child.
I saw a tiktok I think it was? Of a little girl in a car, she must of been about 2 years old? Not strapped into her seat properly and puffing away on a fuckin vape!!!! I couldn't actually believe what I was watching. I was horrified!!!
So you've give me some food for thought and to maybe be a bit more mindful about the memes I might share. 🩷 xx
I have restacked this because I found it interesting the way you made light of those own situation and the other observations you make.
Oh yeah as you know. I have a really dark sense of humour, it’s something we share but I’d hate to think we’d go back to those days.
How awful for you to go though that as a toddler. You’ve done amazing to be the light you are ☀️
The viral vids that used to really upset me was that trend when they spell out some vile word in Alphabites or something then give it to their child to eat whilst laughing. They really turned my stomach.
I think I was brought up by teenagers. Never grew up themselves and it was generational so no one to pull them up sort of thing. My nan was 17 when she had my mum and my mum was 19 when she had me. I'm pretty sure they both suffered sexual abuse at the hands of my grandad aswell as I did, my nan married him when she was 16 and he was 21 so that gives red flag vibes. So it was the blind leading the blind.
Not making excuses for them but I do pity them all for being so weak.
And I'm so sorry I've hijacked your post now!! Xx
No not at all. I like comments on my post, discussions. Made me think of my friend who was sexually abused. When I first met her before I knew all that, I used to find it odd/inappropriate some of the jokes she was making at 14/15 or things she had normalised. Then you look back with perspective and think “omg…she was trying to process it all, deal with it”.
Haha. Don’t know what you mean Julie. I never got pissed as a toddler and never misbehaved until the age of 50 once I realised what a good corporate mug / slave I’d been😂😂 Then I gave myself a slap instead!
Full of mischief now though eh, Steve? Proper professional rabble-rouser😉😂😂
I best deny that just in case the algorithm dobs me in to the Global Governers before they’ve all destroyed each other. 😊
Spoken like a true tinfoil hatter😉😉😉😂😂😂
Smacking kids was just normal when I was a kid so I did it too with our elder children. Eventually I came to my senses and realised my regrettable error with our youngest and didn’t smack them. Better results and no trauma. 🥹
Haven’t we all made parenting errors?
I know I have. Gosh….where to start!
We can only go from where we are hey? Move forward, learning and becoming as we do. :)
Compassion all the way - for everyone.
Yeah, we can’t go back but we can apologise and teach better. Many things were actually better in the old days but corporal punishment wasn’t one of them.
Thankfully, I’ve haven’t seen too many of those memes but I get the idea. Maybe it’s a way of hijacking reasonable concerns about free speech to polarise those who are seen as “snowflakes” and the reactionary opposite who think offensiveness is edgy and cool - in reality, we should all be playing nicely somewhere in the middle.
It’s easy to imagine that there was some sort of golden age, but slavery, child exploitation, infectious disease, rotting meat sausages and smog aren’t any sort of fair trade off for 5G, AI, vape shops and Turkish barbers - and it’s not like the 70’s or 80’s were a sweet spot. I do value the freedom I seemed to have in childhood but some weren’t so lucky. The public schools have a lot to answer for in terms of developmental trauma. No wonder so many of our politicians lack empathy. And the care system was no joke. I agree that those who are quickest and loudest to say that an emotionally harsh childhood never did them any harm - likely doth protest too much.
As ever, you have a keen eye for casual hypocrisy and you come at it with a challenge that is firm, yet yieldingly nuanced.
I don’t mind the fondness for old times, there’s lots I miss…… but not that.
You’ll probably see the memes now, such is the dark and curious magic of the algorithm…..:)
Oh, and funny. I forgot to say funny.
🤗
Not sure if my first link works but the piece I refer to that I wrote about risk, can be found here;
https://open.substack.com/pub/juliedee/p/a-wolf-named-safety?r=1c4b56&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web